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Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Monkeyfister
CENSORED
User ID: 82845
05-17-2012 03:04 AM

Posts: 3,999



Post: #136
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Disturbed nli  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:56 AM)
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:46 AM)
Sorry Birdie. You lack credibility. Arnie Gunderson has been there, and is in constant contact with the Major Players, and I have met him on several occasions. I'll trust him first, thank you very much.

Right, but she is deferring to her husband's experience. Because he worked in the nuke plants mail room or something.

Right.

So, we're supposed to believe third-hand "info" from some industry shill, who hasn't been there, is disconnected from the crisis, and has every motivation-- monetary and otherwise-- to say any positive spin bullshit. Dude is probably and ANS/NRC Lobbyist.

Screw that.

Birdie is a known far-rightwinger. Stands to reason she'll shill for the Nuclear Industry.

"I am the bride at every funeral, the corpse at every wedding."-- Brother Theodore
I had a job trading bits for pieces.
We made Wrinkles-- advertised them as Creases.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 58069
05-17-2012 03:06 AM

 



Post: #137
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
birdie  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:03 AM)
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:46 AM)
Sorry Birdie. You lack credibility. Arnie Gunderson has been there, and is in constant contact with the Major Players, and I have met him on several occasions. I'll trust him first, thank you very much.

Arnie Gundersen:

Quote:In addition to offering pointers to better sources of information, I take aim at Gundersen himself. He is a disgruntled former nuclear services salesman who has a strong motive for disliking the nuclear industry – he got fired from his lucrative position as a senior vice president in the early 1990s after accusing his employer of improperly handling radioactive sources that could be purchased via mail order. He was sued by his employer and he claims that he was blackballed by the industry.

For a decade or more, he worked as a private school teacher at a salary approximately 1/4th of what he was making in the nuclear industry and supplemented that income with expert witness testimony in cases in which he testified against nuclear companies. His qualification as an expert witness was based on the fact that he had earned both a BS and an MS in nuclear engineering. He knows enough of the technical details of nuclear energy to seem believable, but he also has been guilty of embellishing his experience to give his observations even more credibility.

One example that is nearly unforgivable is his continued claim that he is a licensed nuclear reactor operator. The only reactor that he was ever license to operate was a 100 Watt “critical assembly” at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. That reactor had no power generation ability – its thermal power was about as much as a single lightbulb. Operating it provides no experience at all in nuclear power plant operations or maintenance. It frosts me to think that the news media ignores the thousands of far better qualified sources of information simply because Gundersen is accessible and willing to tell fibs in order to provide exciting copy.

Several people have challenged me with regard to my efforts to expose Gundersen as having strong personal and financial motives to attack his former industry. They do not like my efforts to show that he has not been completely forthcoming about his experience. They have told me that it is not fair to focus on the messenger; they say I should focus on countering his assertions instead.

My response is to remind people that it is often far more effective to aim at the archer than to aim at the arrows. (Of course, I am speaking figuratively here. My weapon is my keyboard.)

http://atomicinsights.com/2011/06/arnie-...ional.html
Quote:Publisher: Rod Adams – Pro-nuclear advocate with extensive small nuclear plant operating experience. Former Engineer Officer, USS Von Steuben. Founder, Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. Host and producer, The Atomic Show Podcast.
Follow atomicrod on Twitter.

Beginning in April 1995, Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. (AAE) began publishing Atomic Energy Insights as a series of monthly paper newsletters with the intention of being an alternative source of information for what we hoped would be a newly rejuvenated nuclear power industry. Rod Adams, the founder of AAE, did most of the writing, but there was a small team that did the editing and publishing. It soon became apparent that we were a bit early out of the box.

http://atomicinsights.com/about

Getting pretty shilly in here, burrrr.
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Johntaraz
A Hunger Artist
User ID: 96868
05-17-2012 03:08 AM

Posts: 7,120



Post: #138
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
birdie  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:27 AM)
freebyrd  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:09 AM)
birdie  Wrote: (05-17-2012 12:41 AM)
Fortunately, we are not running from radiation. lol
likely story, sounds like something a fed would say chuckle Heartflowers

You know, when this first happened I was FREAKING like everybody else - probably because I come to places like LOP..LOL.

And I was like, "Honey, are you SURE there's nothing to worry about HERE?! ARE YOU SURE???"

Now, if my husband had been anything else say, a butcher, a baker, or a candlestick maker, I would NOT have believed him. But, on this one since he is actually eminently qualified to answer, I believe him when he says there is no danger to us here.
So the elevated levels of radiation in the United States are nothing we should worry about? There is no danger to us here?

"Fukushima Radiation Found in US Milk
Monday, April 16, 2012
Milk in San Francisco is being tested at radiation levels that are double the maximum amount allowed by the EPA, apparently as a result of radioactive cesium reaching California from the Fukushima disaster."
Read the original source: http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/fukus...z1v5Fw4FJt

Fukushima Radiation On US West Coast - Mainstream Media Coverup
http://coupmedia.org/toxins/fukushima-ra...verup-0304

Uranium-234 detected in Hawaii, Southern California, and Seattle
EPA RadNet Air Concentration Measurement Data – Uranium, Plutonium, Strontium, Released April 6, 2011:
http://enenews.com/uranium-234-detected-...ia-seattle

“Tends to concentrate in the testicles”: 360+ atoms of radioactive sulfur per day may have been inhaled by Californians after Fukushima

"The Journal Environmental Science and Technology reports in a new study that the Fukushima radiation plume contacted North America at California “with greatest exposure in central and southern California”, and that Southern California's seaweed tested over 500% higher for radioactive iodine-131 than anywhere else in the U.S. and Canada:"
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/03/c...ation.html

Projected paths of the radioactive atmospheric plume emanating from the Fukushima reactors, best described as airborne particles or aerosols for 131I, 137Cs, and 35S, and subsequent atmospheric monitoring showed it coming in contact with the North American continent at California, with greatest exposure in central and southern California. Government monitoring sites in Anaheim (southern California) recorded peak airborne concentrations of 131I at 1.9 pCi m−3
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/201...-radiation

California scientists witnessed a spike in radioactive airborne material in March following the meltdown of Japan’s wrecked Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear power plant, a study showed.

"Researchers at the University of California, San Diego, observed the highest levels ever detected of radioactive sulfur in the atmosphere, 15 days after Fukushima’s operators cooled the damaged reactors by pumping in seawater, according to a study published today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences"
http://enenews.com/radioactive-sulfur-ca...esearchers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbwwfNL4QUM

"The unexamined life is not worth living."--Socrates"
There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true."
— Søren Kierkegaard
Most arguments rely on appeals to authority or morality. Truth and reason necessarily rely on neither.
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Monkeyfister
CENSORED
User ID: 82845
05-17-2012 03:09 AM

Posts: 3,999



Post: #139
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
birdie  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:03 AM)
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:46 AM)
Sorry Birdie. You lack credibility. Arnie Gunderson has been there, and is in constant contact with the Major Players, and I have met him on several occasions. I'll trust him first, thank you very much.

Arnie Gundersen:

Quote:In addition to offering pointers to better sources of information, I take aim at Gundersen himself. He is a disgruntled former nuclear services salesman who has a strong motive for disliking the nuclear industry – he got fired from his lucrative position as a senior vice president in the early 1990s after accusing his employer of improperly handling radioactive sources that could be purchased via mail order. He was sued by his employer and he claims that he was blackballed by the industry.

For a decade or more, he worked as a private school teacher at a salary approximately 1/4th of what he was making in the nuclear industry and supplemented that income with expert witness testimony in cases in which he testified against nuclear companies. His qualification as an expert witness was based on the fact that he had earned both a BS and an MS in nuclear engineering. He knows enough of the technical details of nuclear energy to seem believable, but he also has been guilty of embellishing his experience to give his observations even more credibility.

One example that is nearly unforgivable is his continued claim that he is a licensed nuclear reactor operator. The only reactor that he was ever license to operate was a 100 Watt “critical assembly” at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. That reactor had no power generation ability – its thermal power was about as much as a single lightbulb. Operating it provides no experience at all in nuclear power plant operations or maintenance. It frosts me to think that the news media ignores the thousands of far better qualified sources of information simply because Gundersen is accessible and willing to tell fibs in order to provide exciting copy.

Several people have challenged me with regard to my efforts to expose Gundersen as having strong personal and financial motives to attack his former industry. They do not like my efforts to show that he has not been completely forthcoming about his experience. They have told me that it is not fair to focus on the messenger; they say I should focus on countering his assertions instead.

My response is to remind people that it is often far more effective to aim at the archer than to aim at the arrows. (Of course, I am speaking figuratively here. My weapon is my keyboard.)

http://atomicinsights.com/2011/06/arnie-...ional.html

Your special site proudly claims it is a Pro-nuclear shill site:

Rod Adams

Pro-nuclear advocate with extensive small nuclear plant operating experience. Former submarine Engineer Officer. Founder, Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. Host and producer, The Atomic Show Podcast.


Sorry, honey-- you f*cking lose.

"I am the bride at every funeral, the corpse at every wedding."-- Brother Theodore
I had a job trading bits for pieces.
We made Wrinkles-- advertised them as Creases.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 58069
05-17-2012 03:09 AM

 



Post: #140
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:04 AM)
Disturbed nli  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:56 AM)
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:46 AM)
Sorry Birdie. You lack credibility. Arnie Gunderson has been there, and is in constant contact with the Major Players, and I have met him on several occasions. I'll trust him first, thank you very much.

Right, but she is deferring to her husband's experience. Because he worked in the nuke plants mail room or something.

Right.

So, we're supposed to believe third-hand "info" from some industry shill, who hasn't been there, is disconnected from the crisis, and has every motivation-- monetary and otherwise-- to say any positive spin bullshit. Dude is probably and ANS/NRC Lobbyist.

Screw that.

Birdie is a known far-rightwinger. Stands to reason she'll shill for the Nuclear Industry.

Cmicsfee
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birdie
Registered User
User ID: 14733
05-17-2012 03:13 AM

Posts: 2,714



Post: #141
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:04 AM)
Disturbed nli  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:56 AM)
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:46 AM)
Sorry Birdie. You lack credibility. Arnie Gunderson has been there, and is in constant contact with the Major Players, and I have met him on several occasions. I'll trust him first, thank you very much.

Right, but she is deferring to her husband's experience. Because he worked in the nuke plants mail room or something.

Right.

So, we're supposed to believe third-hand "info" from some industry shill, who hasn't been there, is disconnected from the crisis, and has every motivation-- monetary and otherwise-- to say any positive spin bullshit. Dude is probably and ANS/NRC Lobbyist.

Screw that.

Birdie is a known far-rightwinger. Stands to reason she'll shill for the Nuclear Industry.

Conservative, yes. Nuclear power fan, no. I think they should find another way to make power that doesn't involve nuclear reactions - it gives me the creeps.

You just want to have your doom party and don't want anyone spoiling it for you. Plenty of other sources of doom for the good ole USA, buddy. Fuku ain't one of 'em.
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birdie
Registered User
User ID: 14733
05-17-2012 03:16 AM

Posts: 2,714



Post: #142
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:09 AM)
Your special site proudly claims it is a Pro-nuclear shill site:

Rod Adams

Pro-nuclear advocate with extensive small nuclear plant operating experience. Former submarine Engineer Officer. Founder, Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. Host and producer, The Atomic Show Podcast.


Sorry, honey-- you f*cking lose.

WHo gives a flyin' eff if Rod Adams is a "pro-nuclear" advocate?? Does that change the laws of physics?! Uh, no - it doesn't. Is Rod Adams through his keyboard going to provide some mechanism for deadly radiation to reach or not reach the USA?

Who would you like to see giving their advice on whether or not Fuku is a threat to the USA - a truckdriver or a nuclear engineer?
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birdie
Registered User
User ID: 14733
05-17-2012 03:18 AM

Posts: 2,714



Post: #143
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
http://ansnuclearcafe.org/2012/05/16/spe...dangerous/

Quote:In recent days, a number of articles have been printed that assert that a grave danger exists at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear generating station. These articles claim that this danger exists due to the condition of the spent nuclear fuel at the site and the supposedly shaky condition of its storage and care. Two examples:

“The Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Is Far From Over” by Robert Alvarez

“Fukushima Daiichi Site: Cesium-137 is 85 times greater than at Chernobyl Accident” by Akio Matsumura

These articles are highly deceptive. The occurrence of a cataclysmic release of radioactive material as surmised is hinged upon the occurrence of so many statistically impossible events that it is certain to be a practical impossibility. Since the assertions continue to gain a wider audience, however, it is necessary to examine them and make a realistic assessment of their likelihood.

Pay no attention to this guy either. He probably "likes" nuclear power or likes to watch Fox News. chuckle
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 96787
05-17-2012 03:23 AM

 



Post: #144
borg RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Why all the hatred and conflict? this is why nuclear plants were created in the first place. No one can be an expert and Birdie you are over the top obnoxious and self righteous about this apparently you are scared because this would not be such a battle! Give it up there is no solution to this. We don't know, your husband and his friend don't know and Japan doesn't even know... !!! We are in a very bad place in time and I feel aweful if you are scared and pregnant. Anyone who has children would of course defend this aweful scenerio to the end.
I have a child. This post is gotten so ridiculous and the more you talk Birdie about your expert husband, the more people are thinking this is a fake person. Anyone with that much experience will not display they know everything, especially about Fukushima.
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birdie
Registered User
User ID: 14733
05-17-2012 03:24 AM

Posts: 2,714



Post: #145
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Quote:Assertion 3: The spent fuel in these plants’ spent fuel pools could ignite, leading to a massive radiological release

This assertion is patently false. First, it is important to understand that in order for the fuel to ignite, it has to get hot—and in its present condition, submerged in spent fuel pools with redundant cooling systems and filtration systems, constant remote temperature monitoring, backup generating and pumping systems in mobile units in place (on standby), and high reach concrete pump trucks on site (if necessary), there is no chance of the fuel heating up in any significant way while it is in the pools in the buildings.

In addition, in order for a “cataclysmic” spread of the radionuclides contained in this spent fuel to occur, we can see that a massive fire is needed to both release the material and provide a driving head (or “loft”) to spread it to the winds. It’s clear that no such fire is possible, given the above information. The assertions simply fall apart. Assertion 3: False
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birdie
Registered User
User ID: 14733
05-17-2012 03:30 AM

Posts: 2,714



Post: #146
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
LoP Guest  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:23 AM)
Why all the hatred and conflict? this is why nuclear plants were created in the first place. No one can be an expert and Birdie you are over the top obnoxious and self righteous about this apparently you are scared because this would not be such a battle! Give it up there is no solution to this. We don't know, your husband and his friend don't know and Japan doesn't even know... !!! We are in a very bad place in time and I feel aweful if you are scared and pregnant. Anyone who has children would of course defend this aweful scenerio to the end.
I have a child. This post is gotten so ridiculous and the more you talk Birdie about your expert husband, the more people are thinking this is a fake person. Anyone with that much experience will not display they know everything, especially about Fukushima.

You need to get a grip.

No one here has said they "know everything."

What was said by the nuclear engineer Rod Adams in the OP and my nuclear engineer husband is that the hysteria being whipped up on the internet by folks like you is OUT OF LINE and NOT in line with the laws of physics and the reality of our physical world.

Stop attacking me personally just because you want to wallow in some weird fear of the unknown that you yourself are making up.

And piss off - me and hubby are real people and Astrochik can prove it...LOL. Anon
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Monkeyfister
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User ID: 82845
05-17-2012 03:31 AM

Posts: 3,999



Post: #147
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
birdie  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:13 AM)
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:04 AM)
Disturbed nli  Wrote: (05-17-2012 02:56 AM)
Right, but she is deferring to her husband's experience. Because he worked in the nuke plants mail room or something.

Right.

So, we're supposed to believe third-hand "info" from some industry shill, who hasn't been there, is disconnected from the crisis, and has every motivation-- monetary and otherwise-- to say any positive spin bullshit. Dude is probably and ANS/NRC Lobbyist.

Screw that.

Birdie is a known far-rightwinger. Stands to reason she'll shill for the Nuclear Industry.

Conservative, yes. Nuclear power fan, no. I think they should find another way to make power that doesn't involve nuclear reactions - it gives me the creeps.

You just want to have your doom party and don't want anyone spoiling it for you. Plenty of other sources of doom for the good ole USA, buddy. Fuku ain't one of 'em.

Not into the doom party at all-- just taking this situation seriously, evaluating it clearly, deliberately, and with a clear and objective mind. I know a shill when I spot it regarding this situation. I served on a Nuclear Navy Warship. I earned my Enlisted Surface Warfare Pin on that ship, and know BWR reactors pretty well.

As part of my job, I have to work with ANS, NR, KABL, Bechtel, and the rest of the BigNuke Industry, and know how they operate rather intimately. At their Conventions, they speak quite openly about the grave nature of this crisis-- no cameras allowed, no recording allowed. I've been to three ANS Conventions with full access since the crisis occurred. I've sat and listened to the presentations, and the strategy sessions aimed at countering the very real concern, and fear that it presents. But, you'll believe some shill on the internet, and your shilly hubby. Hope the checks clear, but take your happy crap elsewhere.

We've witnessed Japan and TEPCO purposely spin and downplay the situation, only to constantly be forced to admit they were wrong, and were, indeed, spinning.Three reactors blew out, and are fully melted down, and four Spent Fuel Pools are steaming away. one of those SPFs is on the verge of falling apart, and you're going to tell us that it's no big whoop?

Go smoke your crack in private somewhere-- you should be embarrassed by this thread.

"I am the bride at every funeral, the corpse at every wedding."-- Brother Theodore
I had a job trading bits for pieces.
We made Wrinkles-- advertised them as Creases.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 96787
05-17-2012 03:33 AM

 



Post: #148
borg RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
YOU ARE CRAZY AND SO IS YOUR HUBBIE... ALSO A LIAR.
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Pi
Infinity
User ID: 3.14159265
05-17-2012 03:37 AM

 



Post: #149
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:31 AM)
birdie  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:13 AM)
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:04 AM)
Right.

So, we're supposed to believe third-hand "info" from some industry shill, who hasn't been there, is disconnected from the crisis, and has every motivation-- monetary and otherwise-- to say any positive spin bullshit. Dude is probably and ANS/NRC Lobbyist.

Screw that.

Birdie is a known far-rightwinger. Stands to reason she'll shill for the Nuclear Industry.

Conservative, yes. Nuclear power fan, no. I think they should find another way to make power that doesn't involve nuclear reactions - it gives me the creeps.

You just want to have your doom party and don't want anyone spoiling it for you. Plenty of other sources of doom for the good ole USA, buddy. Fuku ain't one of 'em.

Not into the doom party at all-- just taking this situation seriously, evaluating it clearly, deliberately, and with a clear and objective mind. I know a shill when I spot it regarding this situation. I served on a Nuclear Navy Warship. I earned my Enlisted Surface Warfare Pin on that ship, and know BWR reactors pretty well.

As part of my job, I have to work with ANS, NR, KABL, Bechtel, and the rest of the BigNuke Industry, and know how they operate rather intimately. At their Conventions, they speak quite openly about the grave nature of this crisis-- no cameras allowed, no recording allowed. I've been to three ANS Conventions with full access since the crisis occurred. I've sat and listened to the presentations, and the strategy sessions aimed at countering the very real concern, and fear that it presents. But, you'll believe some shill on the internet, and your shilly hubby. Hope the checks clear, but take your happy crap elsewhere.

We've witnessed Japan and TEPCO purposely spin and downplay the situation, only to constantly be forced to admit they were wrong, and were, indeed, spinning.Three reactors blew out, and are fully melted down, and four Spent Fuel Pools are steaming away. one of those SPFs is on the verge of falling apart, and you're going to tell us that it's no big whoop?

Go smoke your crack in private somewhere-- you should be embarrassed by this thread.

Jhikpghf

Not only all this, but I don't remember the last time I saw a pinned thread get 60+ votes.

Shilly indeed.
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Astrochik
seeking the truth - good or bad
User ID: 55237
05-17-2012 03:38 AM

Posts: 10,953



Post: #150
RE: Debunking the Fukushima Spent Fuel Fable
Monkeyfister  Wrote: (05-17-2012 03:04 AM)
Birdie is a known far-rightwinger. Stands to reason she'll shill for the Nuclear Industry.

she's no shill, she honestly believes the information she's presenting is true, and only posted this to try to alleviate people's fears about the fuel pools catching on fire or exploding.

Quit attacking her, it's not productive. I have been "studying" this nuclear crap since before Fuku. I do not claim to be an expert by any means, but I was interested in chernobyl and had been researching it and the fallout. It was because I read somewhere that you should not eat food imported from certain areas (such as turkish apricots, if I recall correctly) since they were contaminated by Chernobyl fallout. I also found out that in Germany in some areas, people who hunt wild boar must take the boar into a govt office to have it tested for cesium and if it's high, they pay them for it...

I found this map.

[Image: FF25_4FB4564D.jpg]


Greece and Turkey got hammered as far as deposition goes. the plume went certain places and it "fell out" more randomly due to weather and local conditions..

SrjceahdHeartflowers
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